Three Choices (for now)

Posted on by Laura & Brett

A couple of months ago Brett and I had convinced ourselves that following our time in Nashville we could move up to Maine, buy a house, and settle down. Or, we could ditch our car, store our furniture and travel the world with our dog. We had it all figured out.

But deep down a move to Maine never quite felt right to either of us. Neither did flying around the world with a dog. It turned out we were both caught up in the idea of living in Maine or traveling the world with our dog versus the reality of either of those options. Deep down we were uncomfortable with the idea of purchasing a house again and all the work and maintenance that would entail, especially in Maine. We also honestly didn’t want to keep track of all the paperwork necessary to take our little dog into different countries. We were more uncomfortable than either of us wanted to initially admit with facing winter in Maine at our ages (72 and 74 when we would arrive), and what that might cost us (either buying loads of equipment or paying someone to dig us out). As much as we loved the idea of living in Maine, we knew it would in reality be a lot more work that we wanted to take on. Same for traveling with a dog.

So, we scratched everything and went back to the drawing board. We made a list of the things that make us happy and that would be important this next time around. We came up with seven items that are important to us at this stage in our lives – proximity to family, cost of living, taxes, good weather, financial security, quality healthcare, and travel – and using those came up with a list of three possible options for a post-Nashville life. We listed the positives and negatives for each, but didn’t rank anything for now.

Below are the three options we’ve come up with so far:

1) Honolulu Condo

POSITIVES:

  • Life in Hawaii fits us like a glove. Granted, busy Honolulu would be very different than slow-tempo Kaua’i, but the underlying basics that we love about Hawaii would still be there.
  • Owning a condo appeals more to us than owning a single family home: it has all the benefits of apartment living but we can alter the interior if and as we please. There’s no yard work, external maintenance, and insurance costs are less. Many HOA fees in Honolulu are lower than they are on Kaua’i, with greater benefits.
  • Honolulu has all the amenities we would need as we age: good healthcare services (including Trippler Army Hospital), good public transit, military services (commissary and exchange), walkability, and an increased availability of goods and other options compared to other locations in Hawaii. Plus, there’s still that great Hawaii weather that we love.

NEGATIVES:

  • The cost of living in Honolulu would still be very high. We know how to deal with Hawaii’s high cost of living, but we’re not sure how much we want to continue to have to do that as we age.
  • It would be very difficult for me to afford to continue living in Hawaii if Brett predeceases me.
  • We’re still not convinced we want to or even if it’s a good idea to purchase a home (condo or otherwise) at this stage in our lives.
  • It would be expensive for our children to visit us, and for us to visit our children, meaning we wouldn’t see each other as often as we like even though travel to Honolulu versus Kaua’i would be easier and less costly.
  • The move back to Hawaii would be something of a hassle and expensive.

2) Road Trip: Canada, Western National Parks, and Baja California

POSITIVES:

  • We really do enjoy being nomads, we’d have a car, and our little dog along for company too, with lots to see and do along the way. Our schedule would be of our own making.
  • There would be no expenses associated with settling down, i.e. buying furniture, setting up utilities, and so forth.
  • Driving through the west and visiting all the national parks has always been a dream of ours. Plus, we could pick where we want to be when – maybe Canada during the summer, Baja in the winter, and the west coast in between, for example.

NEGATIVES:

  • A road trip at this time of our lives would be doable but tiring, more than we’re maybe able to admit to ourselves right now.
  • We’d put lots of wear and tear on our car and who knows what the cost of gasoline will be, or lodging. Both are difficult to predict right now, and would tie up much if not most of our monthly income.
  • It would difficult to form friendships while we’re on the road, and we would still have to eventually find some place to settle.

3) Mexico:

POSITIVES:

  • Even if the cost of living in Mexico increases in the next two years, we could still live a very comfortable life with many amenities, including beautiful, furnished housing and almost everything we use regularly (foods and other items and products we like). We would have enough disposable income to continue to travel throughout the year (to escape the weather we don’t like).
  • Everything we would need as we age is available here, from healthcare to home care. And, it’s affordable.
  • The visa would be easy to obtain, and the move down fairly easy as well.
  • We could afford and enjoy dining out regularly.
  • We could have a car if we wanted, but could also manage without one if we choose.
  • We could fly for a reasonable cost to the U.S. and then on up to see the girls in the northeast, over to Japan to see our son and family, or on to other international destinations. Likewise, it wouldn’t be difficult or prohibitive for our family to visit us here occasionally. The cost of living in Mexico would allow us to travel fairly frequently.
  • We could afford to live near the ocean again. There are many wonderful locations to consider in Mexico.
  • I could continue to enjoy a comfortable life in Mexico on a reduced income if Brett predeceases me.
  • There would be loads of opportunities to connect and form friendships within the expat and local community if we choose, no matter where, as well as get involved (if we want) in activities that interest us. We could have as much or as little of a social life as we desire.
  • Learning Spanish neither scares us nor seems as impossible as other languages have.

NEGATIVES:

  • The dry and at times hot weather in places, or the hot and humid weather in other areas could be miserable.
  • A big unknown is how a potential expat community and their influence in any location might affect us. We like having other expats around in some ways, in others, not so much.
  • Although we’re not afraid of learning Spanish, it’s still something we would need to commit to and then work at, both before arrival and while we live here.
  • There are places in Mexico where it’s neither safe to live or travel.

Two of the above choices, the condo in Honolulu and the road trip, are more emotional choices, with Mexico on the sensible side. I would have thought recognizing that might help make a decision easier, but it really doesn’t. In the past Brett and I have always let our hearts rule us – which has thankfully always worked out – but we’ve previously had time to fix errors or make changes, something we don’t feel we have as much of any more if at all.

So, after more discussion and research than you can possibly imagine, and a LOT of back and forth, we still don’t have any idea what we want to do or where we want to go! Mexico looks like the obvious winner but it’s just not that easy. Trying to come up with a decision is sort of making us crazy as well and we think we may need to give ourselves at least another year to weigh our options, talk with our family, and maybe come up with some other ideas. There’s a good chance we’ll stick with one of the three options above, or maybe we’ll come up with something else. No place is going to be perfect and have everything we want, but we know we need to get it as right as possible this time.

So, as I like to say, stay tuned! We plan to enjoy our time in Nashville while we’re there but we’ll be working on making a final, firm decision and getting ourselves ready to make a move in 2024. Where that will be will continue to remain an unknown for the time being.

Published by Laura & Brett

Slow traveling the world with a sense of adventure!

38 thoughts on “Three Choices (for now)”

  1. Have you considered RV life? You could travel the US and Mexico in a tiny home on wheels. You can stay in each location as long or short as you like. You could even get on the Camp Host list and get free parking with hook-ups and get paid to stay in a gorgeous campground in exchange for a few hours work each day. You could take your dog on the road too. Many RV’s are quite comfortable with showers, laundry, kitchen, bedroom and outside living. You are great at living in small spaces and you could take your time exploring the US and Canada at a leisurely pace. My parents did this for 6 years when they retired and thoroughly enjoyed it. They are in there 80’s now and still remember their time on the road and all the wonderful places they saw.

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    1. I second Lori here! It really does seem like you are describing life by RV, even if you don’t yet realize it. There really isn’t that much work involved, and it’s so lovely to have your own things, including your bed, move around with you.

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    2. The road trip idea is very appealing to us as is having an RV, or at least some aspects of it. The biggest issue we have is with purchasing an RV – mostly likely a camper versus a trailer, and then towing our car – because we have to consider things like resale, maintenance, etc. It’s an idea that resonates with us though.

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      1. Perhaps consider a smaller travel trailer that can be easily towed by your new SUV? Our TrailManor is uber light, and lowers down for towing, so no wind resistance. Other small, lightweight options would be an A frame, Casita and/or Scamp.

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      2. Guess what we happen to be looking at today? If you said small trailers that our Tucson could tow you would be right! There are actually several good, affordable options and road-tripping with an RV has now moved up the list a bit! I haven’t checked out the TrailManor but will – the A-frames are all doable – we like the Aline LTE (? I think I got that right).

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  2. I like the Honolulu option! Like you said, there are downsides, but since you’ve lived in Hawaii before and know more or less what to expect, it could be a good option. Would you consider renting there instead of buying? Honolulu is definitely not the same experience as living on Kauai, but if you want to get away from the city life, you can always head to the more rural areas of the island, or even fly to Kauai for a few days.

    As far as Maine, I thought it was an odd choice when you first mentioned it because I’ve never had the impression from anything you’ve written that you and Brett enjoy winter that much, but maybe you could only be there in the spring/summer and live elsewhere in the winter? I hear the summers are very nice there.

    I’ve only been to Mexico once and it was in 2009 so I don’t feel qualified to make any comments about it, but I just don’t get the feeling from how you’ve written about it that it’s really a place you’d want to live all year. Maybe if you live in Maine in the summer, you could live in Mexico in the winter?

    Another option is you may end up liking Nashville and want to stay there!

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    1. Maine was chosen to be closer to the girls (two live in MA, one in PA). Homes are affordable there, and the tax situation is good for us. But those winters!

      If the Hawaii option wins out we would probably live nearer to Pearl Harbor or Tripler – less expensive than Waikiki or Kakaako or other Honolulu neighborhoods, and easier for us as we age. We love Hawaii, but the cost of living is a very scary factor now, especially if Brett predeceases me because his navy pension goes away as would my current social security benefit (I would get his). That’s about 2/3 of our current income. I wouldn’t be destitute, and our children have said they would help, but it’s still something we have to think about carefully.

      There is no way we will stay in Nashville.

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      1. I was going to suggest living closer to Pearl Harbor. A friend of mine was stationed there when he was in the navy and he lived in an apartment in Ewa Beach. I totally understand your concern about the cost of living there though and the distance from your kids is an issue as well.

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      2. Somewhere in between the Pearl Harbor base and Tripler Hospital would be the ideal location for us, and the cost would be lower. The distance from family is honestly the biggest deterrent for us returning to Hawaii.

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  3. Hard decisions and yes, it can be “crazy-making”. But how fortunate to have such a decision to make! Home is where the people we love are, but that doesn’t help sometimes! Seems like you’ll be fine with however it works out.

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    1. Yes, we know we’re lucky and blessed to have a few options to choose from, but we really want to get this right. We’ve had all our other decisions in place for around two years before making our moves – it typically takes us that long to make plans, get things in place, save, etc. So, we’re a little nervous about heading into a two-year stay in Nashville without an exit plan in place.

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  4. You have plenty of time to decide what to do next. Although 2 years don’t seem too long, a lot of things can happen and a lot of changes can occur as well. Just think how many changes happened in the last 2 years. You may discover other good places or you may decide to stay in Tennessee, who knows? Try not to fret too much, the Universe has a way to put things in the right place without one moving a finger.

    As I write this comment, I am in a hotel room in a lovely California town, San Luis Obispo, on our way back from a road trip we started 2 weeks ago. This place is as cute as a button and the reality is that our country has endless places to choose from, places that are not only beautiful but also interesting. Only in this trip I have discovered so many gems, one in particular may be a good fit for you.I am talking about Port Hueneme, I don’t really know how to pronounce it, but there is a naval base and a commissary in Port Hueneme, which I know is something you are looking for. Living in SoCal would be similar with living in Hawaii, and LAX is only 50 miles away. From LAX you can fly everywhere in the world. The good thing is that you’re not tied down anywhere, so you can rent something for few months and try it out. That way you’ll know exactly how you like the place, the culture, the financial aspect of living there. You have the freedom to move, which is fantastic. Keep looking, there must be a place for you out there in this big country.

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    1. What a great idea! That area was still pretty untouched last time I traveled through there. You would be close to good health care as well. There were some small houses…The beach was wonderful, community great.
      We have dear friends who are base hopping. They never lived on a base until they fully retired. Now they take one year leases on different bases.They have live in Maine, North Carolina and two bases in Colorado. Just throwing a whole different thing in the mix 🙂

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      2. Thank you both for helping me out! My first take was to pronounce hue as the hue of color but for some reason, I had a feeling that may not be the case.

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      3. I just got off the phone with our daughter in Massachusetts. So far, other than Boston, I think I have mispronounced the name of every town! I did it again today.

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    3. I’m a California girl born and bred (Pasadena/San Marino/San Diego), and would love to return to my home state. The cost of living and high taxes are what have been stopping us (oh, and the fires every year).

      Brett worked at both Point Mugu and Port Hueneme when he was in the navy, and loved it there. Ventura Country would be a great location for us for a variety of reasons, so we’re going to do some further investigation and see if it could be a realistic area to consider.

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  5. All sound fun! Mexico sounds like it would give you the most flexibility regarding being able to afford traveling and afford to live. Hawaii sounds great bc you know it already. The road tripping sounds like it would not be permanent but would be fun for a couple of years!

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    1. Mexico would be the most sensible location for a variety of reasons, primarily financial. We’d get a big bang for our bucks here in so many ways, and we could afford to live in a place with an ocean view and the beach nearby. But, we know the window for us to do a road trip is growing smaller and this will probably be our last opportunity to do something like this.

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  6. Why must it be either or. Why not plan for some combination of the three. Living in Mexico would allow you to save more for road trips and stays in Hawaii. The good thing is you don’t have to make an immediate decision.

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    1. We’ve looked at moving from place to place during the year versus settling someplace and while it could be done it would be more difficult. But the idea is in our minds, so who knows?

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  7. All good choices. Maine gave me the shivers thinking about it.
    I love dogs. I have one wrapped around my neck as I type. BUT, travel with a dog is really tough. We often say she is a permanent three year old. What happens if we want to go to Somewhere for a month ? Our kids will take her in a heartbeat, but the reality is they don’t live here. A dog sitter runs about $30 a night….My dog sitter does the job because she loves dogs, is in her 70’s, and loves to travel. She does not own a dog.
    Maybe think of your next place as “for the next seven years” instead of settling down? When one of you passes, I am betting the survivor will move close to one of your kids. My mom lived in the same neighborhood for 70 years. Her friends are long gone (died or moved). She now lives in a community house near my sister- knowing no one else- because she needs more intense time/ monitoring. No one watches and cares for you more then family-IMHO.

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    1. I can’t even think seven years ahead, although I am trying! We are still very much in Nomad mode which is another reason why moving to Maine was unsettling for us, and why we’re not sure we want to commit to buying in Honolulu.

      Not sure about boarding our dog, but we have boarded in the past for longer trips for us – it’s just something we budgeted for when planning. Either that or the dog goes with us!

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  8. I like the RV suggestion. Then you have your own bed, and kitchen, and can stay in many places for a month or more. State or Federal is only 7 days and some are 14. Those are the really popular ones. The less popular with no hook ups are probably longer but there are lots of private campgrounds as Tamara can probably fill in. There are also military bases where you can camp too. ( check with easing along) as he and his wife do that quite a bit and they have a huge RV. You probably would do fine with a Class 21 ft like a mini Winnie( which I adore). As for California, I think it’s the same as Hawaii in some ways. We have very little income and we make it work and have a mortgage. You just figure out what you can afford and go from there. Just like you did in Hawaii. As for taxes, I’m not sure how that works but SS is only taxed after a certain amount ??? We only owed a tiny bit last year but that’s because we used some savings ( from retirement $) to put down on our RV and truck. I guess it would depend on your income bracket and retirement withdrawals. Now buying a house probably would be out of the question, but there are probably Condos or apartments for rent that are similar to what you paid for in Hawaii. I guess it’s all a matter of perspective. I would never live anywhere but California.

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    1. We are currently investigating RVs – there are things we like about them and thing we don’t, so a lot to consider. But, it would be a less expensive way to road trip and that idea really appeals to us for a variety of reasons. This really would be our last chance to do that sort of travel because of our ages.

      The biggest issue for us with California is that they tax EVERYTHING – social security, military pension, regular pension – everything. I guess I could check their income brackets and get an idea of what we’d pay each year living there, but there are plenty of locations with no state income tax or very little on our retirement income. From what I’ve seen though the cost of living in CA these days is as high or higher than HI (and we paid no state income tax there). All that being said, I would dearly love to live in CA again!

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      1. I don’t think CA taxes Social Security but it does tax any other income. The cost of living is high, however, I doubt it’s higher than in Hawaii.
        When we looked at moving out from CA in 2019, what we discovered was that it wasn’t a real benefit of moving to states with no income tax. For instance, in CA there is no tax on food, which is a major expense for us. In Tenessee for example, there is a state tax on the food of 5% ( that may have been reduced to 4%) and on top of it, there are other local taxes, which can be as high as 2.75%, for a grand total of 7.75%. You can do the math what that means per year and see if that offsets the state tax you would pay based on your tax bracket. Plus, the nonfood purchases are taxed at over 9%, which is also over what you’d pay in CA. My point is that each state’s bureaucracies must exist and thrive, so they need to take the money from somewhere. Whether it’s from taxing food and providing fewer services for seniors or low-income people, there must find sources to close their balance sheet.
        What I did was I made a list of 20 grocery items that I buy most frequently and I put that list on the cart of a grocery store in my area as supposed to the one in the states I was looking at and I could see whether it was a difference. I couldn’t find a significant difference, I think in one case there was a 20 cents difference which did not justify a move over several states to save $20/year. You can do this exercise, things have changed during the pandemic so maybe now it’s different. Also, taxes changed in 2020, so you need to look into that as well. My friendly advice is to rely less on what you see in the media, which is into practicing shock therapy with us every time they get a chance, do your own research, and do your own thing that pulls your heart in the direction you want. You can always try out living in CA for a year and see how you fare. If it doesn’t work out, you can move to another place. But I think you’ll be surprised by many things, this is a state that truly protects people with low income and there are safety nets built for them. I just came back from a trip and in Culver City, the prices at Trader Joe’s were the same or lower than in the area where I live. I was as surprised as anybody else.

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      2. From what we’ve seen CA does tax social security – every retirement stream of ours would be taxed. But you are correct: that amount needs to be weighed against what we would be paying in another state even if our retirement was not taxed. We will pay no state income tax in TN for example, but the sales tax is 7.25%, high for us after coming from Hawaii (or Oregon, where there’s no sales tax).

        I think you get a lot for your tax money in California, more than people realize. As I’ve said, I’d love to live in CA again, although not necessarily where I lived there before!

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    1. Thanks, Nicula – this was helpful! And, CA *doesn’t* tax Social Security benefits. However, it remains one of the tax unfriendly states for retirees. Again, I think you get a lot there for your tax dollars.

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    2. I agree with your assessment. I think it depends on your income bracket. we have very low taxes because our only income is SS with my husband’s retirement money( very little) supplementing when needed. We live in the Sierra Foothills and there are 2 TJs within 30 minutes, Costco, and Winco all within 20-25 minutes. Our town has a Holiday Market which is terrific. I think people think California, “oh no,” but they are thinking SF, Southern Ca, San Diego, Santa Barbara, etc. I think primarily that Ca is progressive, pro-choice, etc makes my decision a no-brainer. I’d never live in Idaho, or Utah etc because of the restrictive politics.

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      1. We looked very seriously at some locations in the Sierra foothills a few years ago as a possible place to settle, but the were put off by the risk of fires. It may not be as bad as we imagine, but still scary when contemplating a move at this point in our lives. It’s a beautiful part of California though, and somewhat affordable as well.

        I will always love California. And like you, there are places we would never choose to live because of the restrictive politics.

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  11. I love reading everyones comments. There is a lot to consider at our age isn’t there? I think I mentioned that we are trying to move back to Massachusetts to be near friends and family. When we first moved out here to Arizona we never really thought about what we were missing out on. But when the pandemic hit, everything changed. I think for you going back to Hawaii will limit your family time. A lot. These young people are spending so much on housing costs they cannot afford to travel. I have been here 4 years and my son still has never seen where I live. To me that is frightening. But they just cannot afford to put 4 people on a plane these days. Flying has become prohibitively expensive. Not to mention all the delays. I really have no interest in travel any more. it is too difficult. I know you two still want to travel but it is not for me any longer. I just want to be able to take a drive and see my children and grandchildren. And I want them to be able to take a drive and visit me. I hope you figure it out. But you do have two years to do that. And as someone said, a lot can change in two years. Maybe we will see you in Massachusetts! HA! We are looking at the western part of the state now since Boston is too expensive. Good luck to you and safe travels!

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  12. If Mexico is still in the mix of possibilities, do investigate the small fishing village called BUCERIAS. It is about 20 minutes outside of Puerto Vallarta, right on the ocean.Many expats,both American but also a lot of Canadians. We vacation there and absolutely have fallen in love with it.Affordable housing,food,good medical care, $20 an hour massages, an artsy community down the road (Puerto Vallarta) and an airport for international travel. Easy to travel within the country also to other parts of Mexico. We’re not considering leaving the USA (yet??) but if we did we might head to BUCERIAS!!

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    1. Thank you for the suggestion – I am going to be doing some investigating! We think we would be much happier and content in Mexico if we settled near the (Pacific) ocean, but so far the sticking point has been, “and where would that be?” I’m thankful that we’ll have these next two years to figure things out, and Bucerias may just make the list!

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